Editor is very hard to use

Post here your questions about the OpenSpace 1.x or notify bugs and suggestions.

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morgflast
Posts: 9
Joined: 04 Sep 2008, 15:21

Editor is very hard to use

Post by morgflast »

Here is my wishlist for bugs to be fixed/features to be added in order to make the Openspace Editor usable:

1) When creating a supertile, right now you cannot place tiles on areas obscured by tiles in the foreground. This makes building/editing large platforms/ramps all but impossible. If you need to say, add an unwalkable tile behind a ramp after you have created a ramp, right now you have to destroy everything and start over, because the tile cannot be placed where foreground objects obscure it.

Suggestion: create a hotkey for toggling 'punch-through' mode. While holding this key - tiles go to the farthest back layer. This would allow you to place tiles on areas obscured by foreground objects.

2) The editor crashes once every 15 minutes or so. This is highly correlated with typing into the search boxes. There is no autosave, so I have lost hours of work.

3) The default of no tiles on the map is wrong. All tiles should default to being walkable. Right now, you must first fill the background layer with walkable tiles (using the flood fill button). Next you place tiles and supertiles on the map. When you remove any of these tiles or supertiles, they leave holes of unwalkable regions. Now, this cannot be fixed with the flood fill, because the whole map will be destroyed.

Suggestion: Either make flood fill smart enough to fill unwalkable/no tile regions OR preferably, when you remove tiles or supertiles replace their footprints with walkable tiles.

4) Supertiles placed on the map cannot be dragged to new locations. Only parts of them move.

5) The testing cycle to see if there are regions where your avatar either goes under objects it should not or on top of objects it should not is extremely long. It requires creating skins, tiles, supertiles, maps, exporting and playing. A nice feature would be to 'test' a map and 'test' a supertile, by placing a stock avatar on every walkable tile, just to be able to see if it looks correct.

6) On exported maps if you used pixel art for a large asset, like a tree, there are many walkable tiles behind the tree that can no longer be clicked. This is because the square bounding box f the pixel art is drawn after those tiles, and is thus in front of them.

Suggestion: Please, please, please, if the area you are clicking is transparent, have the click register on a tile behind that layer. This is probably hard to do, but right now it is impossible to walk through the forest I created because of invisible layers.

7) Navigating the map that you are creating in the editor is hard. If I could use two finger scroll on my mac os x touchpad to scroll both up and down, and sideways, it would be much easier. Right now two finger scroll will not scroll sideways, and is broken on the up and down. It will only scroll down, not up.

8) When you export a map, there is no feedback. It does not let you know it has succeeded. The button does not disable when you click on it.
Also the map will not export until you have saved, closed, and reponed the project at least once.

9) Sometimes, I have a bug with editing skins. At times, although not always, when the horizontal and vertical offsets of skin are modified this change does not propagate through to tiles, and supertiles and maps using this skin. When this happens those tiles and supertiles must be destroyed and recreated.

10) In the example library that we were given, skins that are movie clips are alternating between multiple states, so you can tell that they are movieclips. How did you do that?

11) The editor will not let you set the object id of skins.


Thanks. I would really appreciate if you could fix any/all of these issues. It would make my Openspace editing experience much more enjoyable and productive.
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Bax
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Post by Bax »

Thank you for your feedbacks. We will work to improve the future releases of the OpenSpace Editor. In the meanwhile we have some comments and suggestions.
1) When creating a supertile, right now you cannot place tiles on areas obscured by tiles in the foreground. This makes building/editing large platforms/ramps all but impossible. If you need to say, add an unwalkable tile behind a ramp after you have created a ramp, right now you have to destroy everything and start over, because the tile cannot be placed where foreground objects obscure it.
Suggestion: create a hotkey for toggling 'punch-through' mode. While holding this key - tiles go to the farthest back layer. This would allow you to place tiles on areas obscured by foreground objects.
This is not feasible, as you may have a variable number of overlapping tiles. Also, even if you could send the tile on the farthest back layer, you wouldn't be able to reach that tile anymore in case you made a mistake. The only suggestion is to plan the design of your supertiles and maps carefully before starting to build them in the editor.
2) The editor crashes once every 15 minutes or so. This is highly correlated with typing into the search boxes. There is no autosave, so I have lost hours of work.
We can't reproduce this issue. Are you able to provide step by step instructions to make the Editor crash?
3) The default of no tiles on the map is wrong. All tiles should default to being walkable. Right now, you must first fill the background layer with walkable tiles (using the flood fill button). Next you place tiles and supertiles on the map. When you remove any of these tiles or supertiles, they leave holes of unwalkable regions. Now, this cannot be fixed with the flood fill, because the whole map will be destroyed.
Suggestion: Either make flood fill smart enough to fill unwalkable/no tile regions OR preferably, when you remove tiles or supertiles replace their footprints with walkable tiles.
We had a feedback from other users who asked the map to be filled with non-walkable tiles as default, while you are asking for walkable tiles. As you can see everyone has his own needs, so the best way to handle this was to create the flood-fill feature. The suggestion to make the flood-fill smarter so that it only fills the empty grid places is not so bad. We could add a checkbox so you can choose if it has to work in "smart mode" or not.
4) Supertiles placed on the map cannot be dragged to new locations. Only parts of them move.
This is not a bug, but the current intended behavior. Dragging of groups of tiles is not available because it leads to major problems in case the group is moved to a new position which partially overlaps with the previous position.
5) The testing cycle to see if there are regions where your avatar either goes under objects it should not or on top of objects it should not is extremely long. It requires creating skins, tiles, supertiles, maps, exporting and playing. A nice feature would be to 'test' a map and 'test' a supertile, by placing a stock avatar on every walkable tile, just to be able to see if it looks correct.
This feature is already planned.
6) On exported maps if you used pixel art for a large asset, like a tree, there are many walkable tiles behind the tree that can no longer be clicked. This is because the square bounding box f the pixel art is drawn after those tiles, and is thus in front of them.
Check this link (REMOVING THE BACKGROUND OF IMPORTED BITMAPS paragraph) to create bitmaps in the proper way to avoid that problem.
7) Navigating the map that you are creating in the editor is hard. If I could use two finger scroll on my mac os x touchpad to scroll both up and down, and sideways, it would be much easier. Right now two finger scroll will not scroll sideways, and is broken on the up and down. It will only scroll down, not up.
We use a Mac too, and we don't see issues with the up scrolling. THe sideways scrolling is out of our control: the OpenSpace Editor was built using Adobe Flex, which doesn't support side scrolling.

8 ) When you export a map, there is no feedback. It does not let you know it has succeeded. The button does not disable when you click on it.
Also the map will not export until you have saved, closed, and reponed the project at least once
We will add an "export completed" warning. You are right, there's a bug that prevent map exporting when the project is new. We will fix it.
9) Sometimes, I have a bug with editing skins. At times, although not always, when the horizontal and vertical offsets of skin are modified this change does not propagate through to tiles, and supertiles and maps using this skin. When this happens those tiles and supertiles must be destroyed and recreated.
Quite strange.. any clues on how to reproduce this issue? Anyway, as a workaround, did you try saving the project, closing the Editor end re-opening the project? This should fix the tiles, maps, etc without having to destroy and recreate them.
10) In the example library that we were given, skins that are movie clips are alternating between multiple states, so you can tell that they are movieclips. How did you do that?
Actually this behavior is not intended :D It seems that the stop() action contained on the first frame of those movieclips is ignored when their added on the stage. We hope we will be able to fix this in the future.
11) The editor will not let you set the object id of skins.
Re-tested, and seems to work. Can you better explain?
Paolo Bax
The SmartFoxServer Team
morgflast
Posts: 9
Joined: 04 Sep 2008, 15:21

More editor feedback

Post by morgflast »

Thank you so much for the advice about solving the "large-transparent-unclickable-region" problem, it made our world FAR more walkable.

I have another problem or two to report though...

We have an occasional problem with the map editor where the map can suddenly no longer be opened. This has only happened twice so far, but the results are really devastating. Other "maps" can be created and edited, but the map that was recently saved is unopenable. No properties are listed on the right, the editor only displays a white region where the map should be, and the map cannot be "cloned". This problem cannot be fixed by closing and re-opening the program. It appears our work on this map has been lost forever.

Also, we are experiencing problems with the skin editor. The skins cannot be dragged. The horizontal and vertical offsets can only be changed by altering the numbers shown on the right. The computer is a macbook running OS X 10.4.11

Thanks!

--Ben
samirn
Posts: 11
Joined: 09 Sep 2008, 23:56

Post by samirn »

Quote:
2) The editor crashes once every 15 minutes or so. This is highly correlated with typing into the search boxes. There is no autosave, so I have lost hours of work.

We can't reproduce this issue. Are you able to provide step by step instructions to make the Editor crash?
I've seen this same issue. It seems like it happens when typing in the search box and scrolling through the results. Paolo - I sent you a couple traces a couple weeks ago.
samirn
Posts: 11
Joined: 09 Sep 2008, 23:56

Post by samirn »

Quote:
1) When creating a supertile, right now you cannot place tiles on areas obscured by tiles in the foreground. This makes building/editing large platforms/ramps all but impossible. If you need to say, add an unwalkable tile behind a ramp after you have created a ramp, right now you have to destroy everything and start over, because the tile cannot be placed where foreground objects obscure it.
Suggestion: create a hotkey for toggling 'punch-through' mode. While holding this key - tiles go to the farthest back layer. This would allow you to place tiles on areas obscured by foreground objects.
I've also found this to be a problem. One way I've worked around the problem you described is to temporary change the height of the ramp to a very small number so it doesn't occlude the tile behind it. This doesn't help with tiles w/ skins that are blocking tiles, though. For that, we would need an editor change. Is it possible to add a toggle to hide all skins? That way you could hide all skins, add a tile to the previously occluded tile, then reshow all skins.
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